In this episode of Brains Byte Back, we explore the complex issue of over-tourism, focusing on its environmental, cultural, and economic impacts in the face of climate change. To help us navigate these complexities, we’re joined by Aradhana Khowala, an expert in regenerative travel and sustainable tourism. The CEO and founder of Aptamind Partners brings unparalleled insights into how the tourism industry, often seen as a contributor to environmental strain, can instead be leveraged as a force for good.
The conversation begins with an overview of over-tourism—where too many visitors overwhelm a destination, leading to environmental degradation, cultural erosion, and quality-of-life concerns for residents. Aradhana adds context to the conversation by highlighting that 80% of travelers visit just 10% of the world’s tourist destinations. The result is bigger crowds in fewer spots, putting immense pressure on fragile ecosystems, local resources, and cultural landmarks. That over-tourism is a result of lousy management on behalf of those in charge.
The discussion leads into the different strategies cities across the globe are implementing to curb over-tourism. While many use conventional tactics, Copenhagen has taken a unique approach in response to its influx of visitors by offering an incentive-based program that rewards environmentally friendly behaviors with free tourist attractions, food, and drinks. Erick and Aradhana discuss how this strategy represents a creative approach that can lead to positive outcomes.
Aradhana discusses the importance of active capacity building in tourism, emphasizing the need for robust governance structures and transformational outcomes to ensure sustainable development. She highlights the shift from sustainability to regenerative tourism, which requires measurable management and actionable initiatives.
Erick Espinosa raises the challenge of communication among stakeholders, to which Khowala agrees, noting the need for a mindset shift and the role of technology in measuring environmental impacts. They both stress the importance of operationalizing regenerative tourism for long-term sustainability and how technology will play a vital role in this development.
You can listen to the full episode below, or on Spotify, Anchor, Apple Podcasts, Breaker,, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Overcast, Listen Notes, PodBean, and Radio Public.
Find out more about Aradhana Khowala here.
Find out more about Aptamind Group here.
Connect with Brains Byte Back host Erick Espinosa here.
TRANSCRIPT
Aradhana Khowala
My name is Aradhana Khowala. I am the founding partner of Aptamin Partners, which is a private client advisory. And bulk of my work is advising governments and leaders in the private sector on how do you use tourism as a force for good.
Erick Espinosa
Amazing. Aradhana, thank you so much for joining me on this episode of Brains Byte Back. Before we jump into today’s topic, it’s worth noting that while you are the founder and CEO of Aptamin Partners, you have a very diverse background in terms of your career. I’m going to fangirl here just a little bit for one moment, and mention to our listeners that you’re recognized as a global expert and one of the most influential leaders in the world of hospitality, tourism and travel. So this is also coupled with multiple awards in those industries. And most recently, you served as the chair of the group advisory board of Red Sea global. So essentially, kind of guiding the regenerative tourism initiative in Saudi Arabia, which is something I’d like to dive deeper into in the podcast. But needless to say, you know what you’re talking about when it comes to tourism, which is why I’m excited to pick your brain a little bit on brains bite back, but a term that we’re hearing more these days over tourism. What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you hear these two words?
Aradhana Khowala
Lousy management. Because our tourism is not a problem of, you know one thing, I think it’s a problem of lousy management, where we are unable to come to terms with the different factors that are really draining the energy of what effectively, can be a force for good, which is tourism. So I think of it as a ticking time bomb, where a perfect storm of factors are converging and compounding simultaneously, all at the same time.
Erick Espinosa
Do you think it’s kind of become a buzz word in recent years, because you’ve been in the industry for quite some time? I’m sure that the word has existed before, but I feel like it’s something that we’re seeing more now than before. What do you think that is?
Aradhana Khowala
So look, just for some context, pre COVID, there were about 1.4 billion people traveling internationally, right? And then it stopped for two years, and in the last two years, we’ve witnessed a big bouncing back of tourism. And UN predicts that in the next six years, which is by 2030 the number of international travelers are going to reach 1.8 billion. So effectively, this is all data. It’s all driven by data, which is saying that we’re going to have a lot more pressure on already popular spots, and by definition, more objection from locals. So it’s not just a buzzword. As we speak, there are 98 destinations globally, across 63 countries, that are already grappling with the overwhelming influx of visitors that they are not prepared to deal with, and what is fun, Erick is 80% of travelers visit 10% of the world’s tourism destinations, so bigger crowds in fewer sports. Unprecedented levels of overcrowding. It’s not a buzzword. It’s a reality as we speak.
Erick Espinosa
Why do you think it’s going to pick up so much in these coming years? Because I have some numbers here, like Spain, notorious. We all know Barcelona has been dealing with this for years now, if anything, decades. I think what really introduced people to Barcelona was the Olympics, and then when I went, I remember 10 years ago, part of the conversations that I was having with somebody that I stayed with, ironically enough, in Airbnb, they were complaining about the fact that they felt that tourism was kind of overrunning their city. kind of like hindering their culture in a way. And the numbers here are kind of, they’re they’re big. So it said Spain saw 85.2 million international tourist visit in 2023 ranking it the second most visited country in the world. Just in front of the US. But recent numbers indicate in 2024 that number supposed to hit 110 million, and they will surpass France as the number one spot in those coming years. So there, there’s a lot of protest going on in the street right now. There’s a lot of issues in terms of the socio economic impacts that are being discussed, but what you’re doing and you’re developing a strategy basically because you’re also taking into account the environmental impacts that we’re seeing right now and to come Could you talk to us a little bit more about that strategy that you’re you.
Aradhana Khowala
You have in place, sure, but I want to touch upon what you started with, which I think is telling because Barcelona is a great example, which has probably 1.6 million residents, and they get about 17 to 18 million tourists every year just to the city. You were giving the numbers of Spain. I mean, there’s so many other examples, right? Like Venice is a great example, nearly 30 million visitors, where you just have a resident population of 50,000 people in the historic city center, or Dubrovnik, I love to give this example. Such a small city, there are only 42,000 residents, they get up to 1.5 million visitors. And here’s the fun part, on the days that cruise ships dock in the city, daily visitors are up to 12,000. Daily! So think about a city with 42,000 people, and they’re getting 10 to 12,000 visitors. Iceland up until 2010 which is not long ago, 10 years ago, 14 years ago, half a million visitors. They’re now at close to 2 million visitors. They only have 370,000 people in the country. Santorini a little tiny island, right? 15,000 visitors. Very, very small, 2 million visitors. So I think the problem is with this, which I mean, you can call it the boosterism, or the, you know, boom in tourism, but the problem is with the numbers and the scale. And if you have a small city, it’s quite hard, because everyone wants to go to the same spot, which is the historic city center or the Market Square or something. And that is a problem that needs a very active management to control the visitor flow and fix things. Now on to your question about, How do you fix it as a strategy? I think context is important. So think about this we have over tourism with unmanageable visitor influx on one hand. Next we need to bear in mind that this is happening concurrently when the planetary boundaries are being tested. We were just talking before we started, how you are in a place where you’re affected by floods. As we speak, it’s a flash flood. 4500 families affected, right? This is becoming a daily news. So last year, in 2023 we had unprecedented wildfires. We had the scale of this is just crazy, right? Wildfires in many parts of the world. Canada alone, witnessed 18 million hectares burned. That’s an area just for some context wise, the size of Portugal. In Europe, we had wildfires which ravaged more than half a million hectares. So we’re talking about, you know, it’s affecting natural landscapes, but these are the places that’s attracting millions of tourists annually as well. So you have over tourism, and then you have these things. Now, the Arctic ice is melting. We know that flash floods, like we said, in Colombia, many other parts of the world, we have rising water. A meter of sea level rise is the difference between life and death in the Caribbean. It’s not, it’s not a dinner table conversation, right? I mean, we’re talking about submerged or submerging cities with rising sea levels. I’m talking New York, Tokyo, London, Jakarta, the biggest cities in the world. They’re all facing partial or total submersion, so it’s affecting us in more ways than one. That’s the second factor. Now the third thing is controversial, but it doesn’t help that when you have over tourism, when you have planetary boundaries being tested, you have a bunch of tourists who who are kind of, I guess, sub optimal, optimal in their behavior. It doesn’t help when there’s no shortage of people who exhibit all kinds of craziness in tourist behavior. So understandably, there is a huge backlash from destinations, from cities, all of who in the past have wanted to really grow this very industry, which has been a livelihood for them. Do you want me to go back to your original question?
Erick Espinosa
No, it’s fine. No, the thing is, actually I wanted to, I wanted to touch a little bit more on that, because I feel like the larger cities, for example, Tokyo, right? Yeah, I think it’s the most from what I understand, it’s the most populated city in the world. And most recently, they’ve been getting a lot of people visiting Tokyo with interest in Tokyo, obviously, the the yen dropping is more of an incentive for people to go. I feel like there’s very conventional ways, and this is from years back that people or cities themselves or countries try to approach this issue. And it could be, let’s say, limiting entry into a museum or blocking off streets entirely, but that doesn’t seem to be like a very long term solution,
Aradhana Khowala
Right.
Erick Espinosa
What do you think these cities should really be keeping in mind? Because I feel like a lot of them are kind of looking at the people issue in terms of, you know, the noise pollution, housing issues, but with little understanding of what that means on an environmental skill. Because some of the I would argue that I feel like some of you know, like areas of Costa Rica. For them, their their nature is everything, so it’s very part of their culture to make sure that this is something that they conserve. So they make that as part of their their tourism. But I feel like these larger cities might be missing, missing the mark here when it comes to their approach, because it’s a larger number of people, and they’re focusing more on the people issue. Would you agree?
Speaker 1
Right?
Aradhana Khowala
So I don’t know if it’s about the size of the cities or the strategy the deploy. Let me explain what I mean is you’re 100% right in that some cities destinations are acting defensively, others are being offensive, and there are very few who are leading by example. So look, it’s not all bad news. Let’s let’s start from there. Right by and large, I think destinations, countries, cities, they are waking up to the fact that you need to manage the destination just as much you need to market the destination. So it’s a shift in thinking from just pure promotion to management. And we have a host of destinations trying different kinds of actions. As you were asking me the question, Erick, I was thinking of, and I’m sure you read it in Japan, a town was so overrun with tourists that they decided to put up views to, you know, they put up barriers that would block their views.
Erick Espinosa
Mount Fuji, yeah.
Aradhana Khowala
Yes, exactly, exactly. And we had exactly the same thing in Hallstatt, which is a small, little Austrian village that came to, oh well, that came under the influence flashlight after the movie Frozen. So they got so fed up of tourists snapping selfies that they erected pretty much a wooden fence to block the view, because, yeah, they were getting 10,000 visitors per day in a village of about 800 residents. So they did exactly the similar thing we’ve seen de marketing destinations like Amsterdam had a stay away campaign. So this is what you were talking about. The big cities, not necessarily big. The village in Austria is very small that they just couldn’t deal with the numbers. I’m not sure it’s a size again, going back to the point, but there are other strategies that have worked right. Like decentralizing tourism. And I especially like what Slovenia has done, and there are many others where they’re promoting lesser known destinations like Maribor and the Soca valley to alleviate pressure on popular spots like Lake Bled and Ljubljana, which is where people generally go to. Now, Japan also, interestingly, has a campaign, which is the visit Japan campaign, which is focusing on decentralizing tourism by promoting regions like the Hoku and Kyushu and Shikoku, and take people away from Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka.
Speaker 2
which
Erick Espinosa
Which is very smart the have a little taste of other parts of Japan. Is the idea, right?
Aradhana Khowala
Exactly? And New Zealand is doing exactly the same thing, because everyone would hit Queenstown and Rotorua before. You know adventure capital and blah, blah, blah, but now they have campaigns which is taking you to places like Taranaki and the Catlins. Not unheard of, but I think also suiting the mindset of travelers who historically used to have FOMO, which is fear of missing out. But now we are seeing that fear of missing out becoming Jomo, which is Joy Of Missing Out in that I’m quite happy to sit out destinations which is going to be overcrowded and inundated with people, and I much prefer the peace and quiet of places which also, incidentally, might end up working as less expensive, because a lot less people venture there. I mean, there’s so many destinations that are doing this now, Thailand launched the 12 hidden gems campaign. Again, promoting cities like Nan and Trat, apart from, you know what we normally hear, which is Bangkok and the others. Indonesia is doing this. Indonesia is calling it 10 new Balis. So don’t just go to Bali, but go the other new Balis,
Erick Espinosa
That’s a good slogan. I like that.
Aradhana Khowala
Yes, exactly. And then, of course, look, there are the traditional models which have shown results in the past, right destinations at countries which charge you for entry, like Bhutan charges, I think it’s $200 per visit. Indonesia is trying it. I think there’s a surcharge to go to Venice. Now, I’m not exactly sure it’s not a big number, but there is something.The national parks in US where you not just have an entry, but you have the aviation background, so you would appreciate that. You know how they have dynamic prices. Pricing in aviation, they do exactly the same thing. So revenue management and dynamic pricing to visit destinations, which I think is very, very clever.
Erick Espinosa
Well, it’s money they can invest in other in other areas, right? Which is the idea
Aradhana Khowala
Absolutely. Listen, I just came back from Rome last week, and it was so crowded that I was scared to think what’s going to happen next year, because it is the Jubilee year. So 2025, where Rome is expecting 35 million visitors. The example of dynamic pricing. I mean, I just wonder why are they not implementing it? Because make it free for the Italians, but charge a whole lot more for international visitors for that specific period, and use it exactly as you said, to fund the, you know, the restoration of the sites which are so valuable, right? I don’t think anyone is going to bat an eyelid if you charge a whole lot more, quite frankly, because you’re paying for the privilege of visiting Rome during the year of the Jubilee. So yeah, I think destinations need to think a lot more creatively.
Erick Espinosa
I think we know high seasons exist. We try to budget it based on where we’re going, the times that we’re going. And I think you and I are very similar, and these people exist in the world. We have, we have a gene in us where we want to travel. We want to see the world. We want to see different cultures. And that is not going to go away. I think right now, if anything, traveling has become a lot more accessible than it has, you know, in the past, and it’ll be just becoming we’re becoming more connected with the world. People won’t stop traveling. We know that. So instead, we’re seeing this push for now sustainable tourism, which I feel like is kind of like another hot word, but I think it’s worth asking you, do you think the responsibility of eco friendly tourism lies in the hands of the tourist, or is also the responsibility of the city?
Aradhana Khowala
Well, it’s first of all to your comment the new buzzword. I think in this industry, we are champions at putting an objective in front of the noun tourism, and then that becomes the buzzword.
Erick Espinosa
I love that. True. Good point.
Aradhana Khowala
We have over-tourism. We have cultural tourism. We have regenerative tourism,
Erick Espinosa
Anti-tourism
Aradhana Khowala
Sustainable tourism. Yes! Rural tourism. The list is endless, and we’re clever, and we think we’re doing something very innovative with the next new word, and that becomes the new kid in town. But going back, I think, oh, huge responsibility, not just with the visitors, but with the destinations, the countries and the private sector, which is the players, right? Look, you can’t I mean, this is one of those things where all cogs in the wheel need to come together. And it is easy for us to sit and criticize, especially when things are not working. But I think that’s where we need bold leadership. And we should not be just thinking of, what do we need to fix the system currently? But we need to really ask the crazy innovative question in thinking, What is my city, my destination, my company, going to need in the next 3050, years, and how do I think about bringing that in as a change? So, yeah, not just the responsibility of one party for sure.
Erick Espinosa
So we were talking about this before we recorded, because I think this one is a very interesting example. Copenhagen! Copenhagen is notorious for being, I mean, I think it always ranks like at least the top three in the last few years as being one of the most sustainable cities, if not just Denmark as a whole. So they tried something this past summer. They quoted it as or they coined it as Copenpay. Yeah, and I love it, because it’s this idea of playing on on our psychology. It’s kind of a reward based idea, which is kind of like, designed to influence, like, eco friendly behavior from visitors. And it’s an incentive based system. So the idea is, if you pick up garbage, if you take transit, then you’re rewarded in a, you know, in a way, to see the rest of the city, but in, you know, for free, which I think is super smart. Do you think? Do you have any other examples of maybe, any other cities that come to mind that have taken kind of a similar approach? We’re still learning a lot more from this program. I think it’s still pretty fresh, but I’m sure it’s had some positive impacts.
Aradhana Khowala
No, I love it. I think Copenhagen, they started with this, what is called tourism for good strategy and CopenPay effectively rewards you as a visitor for what they call eco friendly behaviors, right. Using cycling or using public transport, and they give you things which you can use while you’re there, like trips or free visits to museums or free meals. So I think it’s a very, very clever strategy, because by doing all of these things, you’re transforming tourism into an intentional, active and conscious experience, which I think is super clever, and I want to touch upon what you said before, which is, I think something we really, really need. We don’t think creatively enough, right? So what we need for this is creative solutions. So think about it, right? If you have to drive, if you and I have to drive on the road today, we need to take a driver’s license. We need to have a license. So we need to be qualified drivers to ensure we are not a risk to people who are on the road. Why don’t we ever require tourists to complete a certification on sustainable travel practices before they can access certain areas, especially places which are really valuable, fragile environments, right? There are some destinations which are now trying tourism free zones, or they have local only days where the place is only open for residents. The residents can park into the village, but if you’re a visitor, you have to be parked outside in the parking and you have to take a bicycle walk or take an electric shuttle bus to reach the village. So a lot of these people are doing interesting things. And then, of course, there iscountries which you know have long practiced, I think, not just sustainable but regenerative behaviors. Costa Rica is a fantastic example where even a four year old child will understand that they need to look after the environment, because that is the natural capital of the destination, which is directly related to the future and how bright it’s going to be for the next generation, if that makes sense.
Erick Espinosa
Yeah, it goes back. It goes back to what we were talking about in terms of culture. And I think culture is also a mix of education, but I like, I like that approach, because similar to Costa Rica and with Copenhagen, it’s basically looking at over tourism as an issue to mitigate a bigger issue, which is climate change. So why don’t we look at those, those people that are coming as a solution, rather than as as a problem? Do you know what I’m saying?
Aradhana Khowala
100% and look we, we are quite poor, I have to say, as an industry, and we have failed, not just in not looking after the planet and the people. We have failed to learn from other industries, Erick. Over tourism is not an isolated phenomenon, right? Think about traffic congestion. I can’t think of a big urban city center anywhere in the world where traffic has not been a problem. But then we came up with a solution. Did we we came up with dynamic pricing. We came up with improved improved public transport, pedestrian zoning, all kinds of solutions. So that’s one industry. Over fishing and resource depletion was a problem. What did we do? We set up quarters, we created marine protected areas, we enforced regulations. These examples are proof that with the right management, resources can be used sustainably. Deforestation. Costa Rica is again, a great example. 25% or 26% of all of their land is earmarked as bio reserve. And you know, for sustainable whatever reforestation project. Now, with again deforestation and habitat loss, we came up with laws, right? Sustainable Forestry is an industry in itself. By at this point in time, we have land management plans that balance economic activity with environmental preservation. So it is possible destinations can learn from other industries to balance tourist numbers with conservation efforts. Water! Something as simple as water. It is probably the biggest challenge of the next century. There are multiple cities that are suffering without enough drinking water, and we have come up with what solutions as a government, as the public sector, as the private sector, right? I mean, from very small solutions to strict usage regulations, to public awareness campaigns, all of these things, I think, proving in multiple different ways that there are solutions that can help manage expectation and distribute tourism flow a lot more evenly.
Erick Espinosa
What I love that you’re doing is that you’re looking at creating a strategy that offers a solution to governments. So you’re quoting it as regenerative tourism. I try to say that 10 times fast. But part of that strategy I understand, involves the stakeholders, and without the stakeholders being willing participants, then I mean it, it doesn’t push the strategy as much as you’d like. So in this example with Copenhagen, what, what I really like is that the businesses in Copenhagen are participating. They understand the value in it. It’s not just the government saying, like, hey, we want you to do this. They are willingly, you know, invite. They understand. They’re bringing tour tourists, you know, into their environment, but at the same time, they’re, you know, part of this strategy. What? What do you think? Talk? Talk to me a little bit more about this strategy and how it incorporates the stakeholders.
Aradhana Khowala
Look, I define regenerative tourism as one which enhances the natural, cultural and social capital of a destination, apart from the economic capital, right?
Erick Espinosa
Full Circle, yeah, for sure.
Aradhana Khowala
Exactly right. So we then that means it needs net positive benefits for people on the planet. And if you just dissect the word, a little bit to regenerate is the capacity to bring into existence again. Traditional sustainable approaches focus on giving back and contribute to what I call the proactive regeneration of communities, cultures, heritage, places, landscapes, so you’re creating positive outcomes. It’s a far cry from doing less damage. That is not good enough anymore. The I think the end result is tourism as an industry has such an outsized impact on climate and biodiversity impacts, and at the end of the day, what are we dependent on? We are entirely dependent on the natural capital and the social capital of any place, and of course, the cultural capital of any place. So by definition and by extension, it means we have that much more responsibility to contribute to those goals. And now, if you want to address over tourism and climate crisis in tandem, because these things are happening at the same time, you need a comprehensive, holistic approach, which is why regenerative approach kind of works really well. Because here, locals, tourists, businesses, governments, everyone is seen as equally important figures when it comes to tourism management and destination planning. So you’re not just talking about engaging local communities and decision making. You are also talking about reducing emissions, restoring ecosystems, and encouraging tourists to actively participate in conservation efforts, exactly like you said in Copenhagen. We have been working on. It’s not rocket science, really, and it’s an open source because most of my work is to encourage everyone to practice it. It’s not, you know, it’s an open source platform that I write and speak about widely, and we call it a start philosophy as a comprehensive strategy which can ensure that tourism can really be a force for good and can actually benefit everyone that is involved. So start, starts with an S of course, which is stakeholder mapping, right? So it’s easy to say that locals and communities should be king, but it’s not just the locals in the community. It is the local community. It is the governmental bodies. It’s a non governmental organizations. It’s the businesses. So it’s all of them. And I can give you examples from different parts of the world, like Kenya, saimara and Kenya does it really, really well. Where you have with the Mara, the local communities, the conservation organizations and tourist tourism operators, from the safari operators to the to the hotels and resorts in the Mara, working together to manage and benefit tourism as a full ecosystem. So that’s the s of the start, philosophy. The T is transparent, consultation with everyone involved. Now this needs regular interact. Interactions you don’t just build and then go back and tell people, Okay, listen, we’re going to create jobs for you that is not transparent community consultation, right? If you are forcing people to vacate a land that you’re building on. Let’s just start there. It’s not sustainable. It’s not regenerative, right? So you need to ensure what you’re building is actually aligned with the needs, concerns and aspirations of people who are the owners of that land. Start there. Make the locals the kings of the destinations, or the heroes of the dish, or whatever you might want to call it. So it’s their ownership. It’s their project. And that helps you, apart from good karma, when you actually build out something, but you need open consultations. The A in start is active capacity building, where you are not just building a resort destination, but you actually contributing to training and closing the skills gap and equipping the people who are the owners of that land. They need to be running those destinations. They need to thrive. They need to be employed. Their kids need to go to school. They need to have medical insurance so they need to be the active, I guess, the participants. So you need to build capacity. But for them. R is the robust governance structure, because, look, it’s all good to say that you want regenerative approach, but unless it’s measurable, you can’t manage it. So you need either community led tourism boards or committees that are providing oversight and management of all of the activities that’s happening, because otherwise, you know, give it to a few dodgy developers, and they will make as much money as they can, and they then exit by flipping, you know, the whole project even before it finishes. So you want people to be really holding whoever is working in a destination and building out the destination accountable, and that needs measurement. And the final thing is the T again, which is transformational outcomes. So you are constantly getting feedback, and by measuring, you are collecting the data on everything that’s happening in a destination, because otherwise, there is no way that you can refine and improve the different activities that that are happening in a destination, Right? So, yeah, you need, you need constant, I guess, outcomes that are being measured in destinations.
Erick Espinosa
When you step in with these destinations and you know you’re providing this strategy, kind of painting the picture. How do you bridge that gap of communication between those different stakeholders? Because I feel like that transparency that you talked about, right? Like that, the I don’t want to say little people, they want to know that what’s happening is really happening in their favor. But how do, how do we, how do you make sure that that communication is being is a two way street between all parties, or in this I mean, in this case, it’s a five way street between different businesses and governments and, you know, the residents, because I imagine that would be challenging.
Aradhana Khowala
No, it is. But I tell you this. What we know for sure is that the old operating model of tourism as we knew it, it’s not fit for purpose any longer. What we also need know is that we need to make a shift from sustainability to regeneration to solve not just the current but the legacy problems of tourism. We know that, but you’re 100% right in that a lot of the discussion that we still have around regenerative tourism at this point in time is still conceptual. So we agree on the rationale. We see the benefits compared to sustainable tourism or degrowth, degrowing tourism. But it’s not the same thing as saying that, you know or we have actionable initiatives that are going to achieve X, Y, Z, or the required transformative change. So what we need, really, and I always believe that the proof is in the pudding.
Erick Espinosa
I love that saying.
Aradhana Khowala
We kind of need to operationalize the transformation towards regenerative tourism, and that’s both for existing and new, planned destinations. And for that, the most important thing is we need to be able to measure, to manage, because unless we can measure there is no way we can actually ensure. Look, it’s easy for me to say that we need to add to the social, natural, cultural and economic capital of a destination, but unless there is a way to measure it, how are we actually, how are we actually managing that we have grown from the baseline? You know? Yeah. So I think in practice, it requires a huge shift in the mindset more than anything else, and it requires a mindset shift across all stakeholders. Exactly what you said. It’s not one lever, it’s five different levers. Yeah, because it’s it’s it’s two things, you’re moving away from the prevalent focus on damage control, and you’re making people commit to positive change. And it’s harder than you think you
Erick Espinosa
Yeah, there’s technology that’s actually being created right now, and like tools basically, that are being given to governments and to industries to kind of have an ability to measure what their environmental impacts are, and I think that in conjunction with your strategies as well, are beneficial in the long run. And I think right now, we’re in this amazing time where this relationship between technology strategies and the way that we’re looking at the future is it’s going to serve us in the right way. But I think people like you that are developing solutions and stepping in and helping these destinations is is pivotal in order for us to see to maintain tourism in the long run, or to have places to visit at the end of the day, because that’s really what what we need, right? If we want to see these beautiful places, we need to make sure that they still make sure that they still exist.
Aradhana Khowala
100% agree. I think technology is going to be a big part of the solution, and it exists in a lot of situations, which is my whole point about let’s learn from other industries. We are doing this for schooling, education system, where you’re doing this with water. We’re doing this with you know, even the, think about it, the load factor on cables and internet, we manage it with technology, right? AI is supposed to serve a purpose. There is no better implementation than to manage tourism and the damage that it can potentially cost. So couldn’t agree more.
Erick Espinosa
Aradhana, I could talk to you about this all day. You’re clearly passionate about travel and sustainability. If someone’s interested in learning more, how would you suggest they reach out?
Aradhana Khowala
LinkedIn, ping me on LinkedIn. I think yes, you will get a response.
Erick Espinosa
Amazing. Thanks again for joining me, and I will hold you to that coffee the next time I’m in the UK.
Aradhana Khowala
I’ll get you to I’ll treat you to lunch, Erick. Taken us a long time to do this, but delighted to have had the chat. Thank you for having me.
